Dancin vs Illinoise

[bigbelterbaby]

Posted: 5/6/24 at 11:34pm

Have been thinking about the reaction to Illinoise both positive and negative and how last year, a dance show that was also nominated for Best Musical failed to find an audience and closed. I just saw someone say there needs to be more dance based shows on Broadway, when we just had one last year and it closed quickly despite having renown Bob Fosse choreography. Of course Illinoise is a different vibe than Dancin’. The original production of Dancin was a huge success and the remount last year was a near replica by Wayne Cilento. Maybe in 40 years one of the dancers in Illinoise will stage a remount and we will see if it holds up. :D 
 

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[Jonathan Cohen]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 12:09am

bigbelterbaby said: "Have been thinking about the reaction to Illinoise both positive and negative and how last year, a dance show that was also nominated for Best Musical failed to find an audience and closed. I just saw someone say there needs to be more dance based shows on Broadway, when we just had one last year and it closed quickly despite having renown Bob Fosse choreography. Of course Illinoise is a different vibe than Dancin’. The original production of Dancin was a huge success and the remount last year was a near replica by Wayne Cilento. Maybe in 40 years one of the dancers in Illinoise will stage a remount and we will see if it holds up. :D"

For me the relevant comp for Dancin’ is Chicago, more so than Illinoise. Chicago was a Fosse show revived on Broadway in 1996 with a streamlined approach to the material, and it's still running today.  Dancin’ in 2023 was marketed as replicating the show's 1978 version and closed after a couple of months. 

If nothing new is being brought to the table, bringing a show back to Broadway is a tough sell.  

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 12:15am

Illinoise is a show with characters, singing, and a story with a narrative throughline, brimming with life and stemming from the mind of the most exciting contemporary ballet choreographer working.

Dancin' is, basically, a dance recital (at least in the way Wayne Cilento rendered it), with a 70-year-old trying to replicate what was successful in the 1970s.

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 1:01am

I thought Dancin was a breath of fresh air last season.  I thought it was new choreography? 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 7:05am

Not even close. From the IBDB entry: Directed by Wayne Cilento; Musical Staging by WAYNE CILENTO; Choreography by Bob Fosse; Reproduction of Mr. Fosse's Choreography: Christine Colby Jacques; Additional Choreographic Reproduction: Corinne McFadden Herrera;

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 7:39am

Having seen Bob Fosse’s original Broadway production of DANCIN’ over 20 times between 1978 to 1982, I can with authority say that what was seen on Broadway in 2023 was NOT in any way a replica nor a revival of Bob Fosse’s work but Wayne Cilento’s personal style infused with some flavoring of Bob Fosse’s style. An extensive amount of sections from Bob Fosse’s original production were eliminated and new material that had zero purpose was added. How Nicole Fosse sanctioned this production is baffling and as the years have gone by, my respect for her attempts at honoring the memory of both her parents has diminished. More than a handful of projects incorporating her father’s work have been horrible half-assed recreations, which speaks volumes about her quality control. At least CHICAGO remains the closest to Bob Fosse’s work to represent his legacy. Aside from the “Hot Honey Rag”, this revival of CHICAGO uses original choreography by Ann Reinking “in the style of Bob Fosse”, and Reinking truly honors his work by firmly using his entire dance vocabulary in every single movement that it’s impossible to decipher what is her work and what is his. 2023’s DANCIN’ was a disgusting travesty and should have been put to rest with its pre-Broadway run at the Old Globe in San Diego. 

[RUkiddingme]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 7:47am

BrodyFosse123 said: " 2023’s DANCIN’ was a disgusting travesty and should have been put to rest with its pre-Broadway run at the Old Globe in San Diego."

yep

[ElephantLoveMedley]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 8:00am

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Illinoise is a show with characters, singing, and a story with a narrative throughline, brimming with life and stemming from the mind of the most exciting contemporary ballet choreographer working.

Dancin' is, basically, a dance recital (at least in the way Wayne Cilento rendered it), with a 70-year-old trying to replicate what was successful in the 1970s."

Perfectly put. Loved, loved, loved Illinoise and loathed Dancin'.

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 11:33am

I think the other part it comes down to is that tourists may not know or care about Bob Fosse as much anymore, and that was basically the main appeal of Dancin', especially when there was no storyline or stars or anything (and I think this revival also got fairly middling reviews from critics).  Illinoise does have a storyline, is based around a fairly successful album, and has Sufjan Stevens's name attached (who has quite a number of fans), and to a slightly lesser degree, Justin Peck.  Of course, we'll still have to see how it does in this run since Broadway is a bit of a different beast than its previous runs, but I agree it'll be curious to see how it's regarded years down the line.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 11:59am

I didn't even hate Dancin'. It just felt kind of pointless, where Illinoise is something much more daring and exciting.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 2:41pm

Broadway Flash said: "I thought Dancin was a breath of fresh air last season. I thought it was new choreography?"

Here's an article from Playbill that describes what happened in more detail. Basically because they don't have a full recording from the 1978 show, a couple of the original dancers tried recreating it based on their memory and Fosse's notebooks.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 3:31pm

To me, Dancin was a bore in the 70s.  I know it was a big hit, but Fosse was hot at the time.

I felt there was a sameness in having one dance number after another, with no connecting thread.  I was bored before the 3rd act began.  I may be incorrect, but I do remember 2 intermissions.  I have to admit that I felt the same way about Jerome Robbin’s Broadway.  Too much of a good thing.

[bigbelterbaby]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 4:10pm

Interesting to hear from all of you on this. I don’t think most people realized Dancin’ was nominated for Best Musical in 1978 and last year’s production was a revival. It’s just funny the following year we have a dance piece also nominated for Best Musical and the debates about that. 
 

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[jagman106]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 4:43pm

Jarethan said: "To me, Dancin was a bore in the 70s. I know it was a big hit, but Fosse was hot at the time.

I felt there was a sameness in having one dance number after another, with no connecting thread. I was bored before the 3rd act began. I may be incorrect, but I do remember 2 intermissions. I have to admit that I felt the same way about Jerome Robbin’s Broadway. Too much of a good thing."

I enjoyed the original production of  Dancin" for what it was, a collection of dance numbers choreographed by Fosse (who not too long before had Pippin and Chicago on Broadway and the Cabaret film about 5 years earlier), although there were some pointless scenes. To this day, I still can't understand why three performers sat on benches singing "Here You Come Again." Was it to give the dancers a little time to breathe? It was a high energy show, and as I recall, popular with tourists, especially those who may have had difficulty following shows with English dialogue/lyrics. I seem to recall that there was supposed to be a Dancin 2 (Too?), but I don't remember the reason(s) why it never materialized, but I think i t might have had something to do with Fosse's untimely death.

I think the appeal of Jerome Robbins' Broadway. was a bit different as (1) it was presented during a rather sparse Broadway season with very few musicals (I really can't think of what else opened that season) and (2) it recreated iconic scenes from many of Robbins' productions during many years prior that many audience members had never seen. It was sort of a "Come see what you missed all those years ago" type of appeal. 

Last season's Dancin' "revival" was a misguided mess that lacked the energy of the original production and IMO seemed like just an effort to benefit from playing off of Fosse's name and work. It was more of a "Come see what you sorta missed that was presented so much better all those years ago" attempt at attracting theater-goers.

[bigbelterbaby]

Posted: 5/7/24 at 4:56pm

I get that sentiment, there’s also the idea of keeping Fosse’s legacy alive, he was also responsible for the show Fosse that won Best Musical, and a similar review called Big Deal that was also nominated for Best Musical.
To say these shows are all outdated and shouldn’t be revived is kinda sad.

At any rate I’m sure he would be happy any dance based show is finding success and an audience so props to Justin Peck for creating a dance piece even non-dance people can enjoy.

I had never heard of Illinois the album before this but have heard many people say they know the album and grew up with it I guess I am in the minority.