Your Favorite Presidents and First Ladies

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 3/2/23 at 3:06pm

Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt are always at the top of polls.  And they certainly are my favorites, as well.

But I also have a certain affinity for Gerald and Betty Ford, perhaps because they were the only President and First Lady I had the honor to meet.  Betty Ford was especially charming, and I've always appreciated their kind words to me.

Do you have favorite Presidents and First Ladies?

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/2/23 at 4:15pm

Thank you for asking.

No, I do not. I have never quite understood the need for a First Lady. I suspect it has its roots in patriarchy, the sweet little lady at home minding the house and looking after the children. A pretty face at the man's side. This has never sat well me. Some have risen above this narrow role, such as Hillary Rodham Clinton. She refused to have her own life stifled in service to her husband. This is to be admired.

Still, it is an unelected office and I believe the concept should be retired. We do not need a royal family.

Updated On: 3/2/23 at 04:15 PM

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 3/2/23 at 4:37pm

I am thankful for all our First Ladies.  They serve alongside their husbands and have been admirable representatives for the United States.  Looking forward to our first First Gentleman.

 

 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/2/23 at 4:51pm

I'm looking forward to our first First Non-Binary Person.

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 3/2/23 at 9:03pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "I'm looking forward to our first First Non-Binary Person."

Dear god, give this whole notion of if things aren’t woke then the world is wrong mindset is getting tired. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 11:57am

I don't know how you got that from my comment, but okay.

Maybe change the title of this "office", to something gender neutral. That would probably be too much to ask for, of course. No change allowed.

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 2:38pm

"I am thankful for all our First Ladies.  They serve alongside their husbands and have been admirable representatives for the United States.  Looking forward to our first First Gentleman."

Find it hard to believe you would thank Melania Trump for her service -lol

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 4:49pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "I don't know how you got that from my comment, but okay.

Maybe change the title of this "office", to something gender neutral. That would probably be too much to ask for, of course. No change allowed."

I was talking about your entire mindset over the last few threads. Including this one. Your comments in other recent threads threads such as stating that if you’re a fan of George Washington you’re essentially a white supremacy supporter (fun fact, he never owned the slaves that were at mount Vernon. Yes there were slaves but were not his.)

You blame the evil patriarchy for all of the issues in the world. You throw around that term so often that it’s as if it’s just word vomit. A phrase you’re saying so often it feels as is if it’s lost all meaning. The only reason I HATE it when people use that term is because, to meal at least. It brings up a notion of a rash generalization which I have always felt as stupid to put all men in a box and say all are bad. 

 

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 6:20pm

Not sure if this will post, but a bit of fun.

 

 

[tvtime987]

Posted: 3/4/23 at 8:04am

I’ll just take one who respects all people. 

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 3/4/23 at 11:54am

Sending very best wishes to Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter.  Two great Americans, who continue to represent what is good about our country.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/4/23 at 12:04pm

Islander, you are wrong. I never said any of those things.

George Washington "owned" or "rented" about 700 victims of slavery over his lifetime. This is inexcusable.

Please consider the writings of Mona Eltahawy for a deeper understanding on what "patriarchy" means.

http://feministgiant.com

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 3/4/23 at 3:08pm

Yes, Washington had slaves. However, during the course of the war his view on slavery shifted. However, a majority of the slaves at Mt. Vernon were ones he couldn’t free post war even though he wanted to since legally, they weren’t his to free. But, I digress, it is a little stupid to view historical actions in today’s context of how we view the world now.” Canceling” does nothing to solve this issue. 

I know what patriarchy means. I guess, my general issue with it is that it oftentimes gets used incorrectly to the point that people who do use that phrase use it incorrectly to the point where I feel it has lost all potentially important meaning, becoming of sorts a shell of its former self. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/5/23 at 1:51pm

George Washington was president. He was in a position to change and influence things, but did nothing. I don't know what "cancelling" even means. I have suggesting removing him from the dollar bill, not erasing him from the history books. Remember him as he was, not a glorified version. Is this so bad?

Likewise, the word "patriarchy" comes up so often because of the profound and lasting effect it has had on the modern world. On everyday lives, in the 21st century.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/5/23 at 1:54pm

 

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 3/6/23 at 1:10am

Jay Lerner-Z said: "George Washington was president. He was in a position to change and influence things, but did nothing. I don't know what "cancelling" even means. I have suggesting removing him from the dollar bill, not erasing him from the history books. Remember him as he was, not a glorified version. Is this so bad?

Likewise, the word "patriarchy" comes up so often because of the profound and lasting effect it has had on the modern world. On everyday lives, in the 21st century."

Everyone has good and bad sides. There’s nothing wrong with him being on the dollar bill. The only glorifying it does, is to celebrate the good things he’s done. Not to mention the fact that judging him by today’s standards is nothing short of laughable. Specially since the world has changed drastically between then  and now. Actually, scratch that, judging anyone for things they either said or did in the past by today’s standards is laughable. So yes, removing him off the dollar bill is that bad. 

And, remember that thread about Beyoncé? In it, you couldn’t believe how many heterosexual women actually supported the tradition of a man popping the question or the woman taking the man’s last name. And yet, when two female posters did a good job of mentioning that there’s a difference between tradition and oppression you blamed the patriarchy, yet again. Even when (and I can’t believe I’m about to give credit to the person I am about to) Sutton mentioned that however people choose to live their own lives is up to them and only them, you wrongfully assumed she was a trump republican and her viewpoints lined up with that and you did the same with me. I have to honestly ask, why is it that you give off the impression that anyone who doesn’t view the world the same as you must be wrong? 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/6/23 at 10:11am

What's laughable is not judging people for using slavery. What's laughable is thinking George Washington did not have the ability to recognize that black people were human.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/6/23 at 10:24am

Also, yes, it still absolutely boggles my mind why women would take their husband's name in this day and age. The whole ceremony of hetero marriage is utterly ridiculous. The father of the bride walking her down the aisle, "giving her away" like property, paying the bills as if the groom is doing the bride's family a service by taking in the innocent young virgin, the groom waiting at the altar for his new acquisition, the invitations have gone out in the parents of the bride's names, only the bride gets an engagement ring because of course only women care about those things... then to top it all off, the bride gives up her own identity, forever more to be known as Mrs. Husband.

I don't mean to paint the people who do this as evil, I just think it is an outdated patriarchal mindset that does harm.

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 3/6/23 at 10:48am

A couple of things. Let me provide an alternate scenario when it comes to judging people from past mistakes at a time when things in the world were different. 
 

We all know that the world in which we live in is always one that will change when it comes to that which is socially acceptable. People grow and change over time. It’s just the nature of things and always has and always will be. That said, put aside the whole Washington and slavery argument and consider this one instead.
 

Say a stand up comedian makes a joke on a topic ten or even fifteen years ago. One that may have been funny and topical then, but not today. Someone finds a video of it online and there is a backlash. Now, seeing as the world changes over time, and fifteen years is a decent amount of time for that to happen, should the comic be raked over coals today for something he said over a decade ago? Even when people knew from the get go that things were different then? 

regarding patriarchy, I still feel that it’s a term to blame all white men for anything wrong. Now, to me that is silly still. If one is a white male are they, by accident of birth does that mean they are automatically guilty of doing evil acts that can be repressive? Of course not, I feel that irrational stereotyping is a foolish notion. I mean, did I miss some sort of Gallup poll stating how many white men fit into the category of “ patriarchy” or something? To me, the viewpoint that it has are that ALL white men are oppressive and evil when that is clearly not the case. Not one bit. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/6/23 at 11:14am

Patriarchy does not just refer to women. Men can also be victims of it. The "head of the house" "breadwinner" mentality can put pressure on impressionable young minds to behave a certain way, fulfill certain expectations. Gay men especially.

With "cancelling" comics, if they recognize that they were wrong, and apologize, then we can move on. If not, then we can't.

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 3/6/23 at 1:07pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Patriarchy does not just refer to women. Men can also be victims of it. The "head of the house" "breadwinner" mentality can put pressure on impressionable young minds to behave a certain way, fulfill certain expectations. Gay men especially.

With "cancelling" comics, if they recognize that they were wrong, and apologize, then we can move on. If not, then we can't."

So, despite the fact that the word patriarch is one that generally, by definition, refers to the male head of a house can also be used toward women as well. Interesting, specially since the general usage of the term is often is associated with white men who are in positions of power be it, say, politicians or otherwise. Also, interesting point to mention, that by saying that it has the ability to put pressure on impressionable minds sounds like brainwashing to me. 


And, as far as comics go. They never need to or should apologize for their words said onstage. Hell, there are many classic comics that, although the material is dated, people are able to understand that and still enjoy it. Most of the classic comics that come to mind when writing this (mainly George Carlin and Lenny Bruce) have material that on one hand is not topical and probably hasn’t aged well at. Are you saying that it’s wrong for people to laugh at work that those who created it are no longer in a position to defend what they did?

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/6/23 at 1:25pm

You seem to have misunderstood my point. Probably my own fault for not being articulate enough in how I express it. What I am trying to say is that not ONLY women are victims of a patriarchal society. Men can be too, with their mental health suffering as a result.

Lenny Bruce and George Carlin are dead, so there is no point in demanding an apology. They have already been cancelled. If there is still space to view their work, maybe it should come with a content warning. Easily done, no big deal. You seem to think everything is "all or nothing", when that's not what I mean at all.

The likes of Dave Chapelle and their unrepentant transphobic rants are a different thing completely.

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 3/7/23 at 12:23am

Jay Lerner-Z said: "You seem to have misunderstood my point. Probably my own fault for not being articulate enough in how I express it. What I am trying to say is that not ONLY women are victims of a patriarchal society. Men can be too, with their mental health suffering as a result.

Lenny Bruce and George Carlin are dead, so there is no point in demanding an apology. They have already been cancelled. If there is still space to view their work, maybe it should come with a content warning. Easily done, no big deal. You seem to think everything is "all or nothing", when that's not what I mean at all.

The likes of Dave Chapelle and their unrepentant transphobic rants are a different thing completely."

You know,  for someone who said they don’t know what canceling even means, you just did a good job of using the term accurately (albeit one that is stupid and immature.) 

As far as your point on the patriarchal society. Yes, in theory it can happen to men too. But it’s never used with that in mind. It’s more often used as a way of saying men are the root of all evil in this society. So let’s blame them. It’s a term that is anti male and its one who’s usages suggest that all issues come from men being in control.  

[South Florida]

Posted: 3/7/23 at 6:16pm

GET A ROOM

 

[darquegk]

Posted: 3/7/23 at 10:45pm

Kinda related: I just caught up on reading the comic “Killadelphia,” which is absolutely brilliant. One of the running themes throughout the book is, how much of the moral failure of the Founding Fathers, particularly their racial and sexual blind spots, was a product of their era versus inherent personality flaw. If they were given immortality, by the present day would they have changed their stances and viewpoints, or clung to them?